Hugh Hewitt carries on a fascinating (if at times depressing) conversation with John Agresto, who served most
recently with part of the Coalition Provisional Authority as the
senior advisor to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education and Scientific
Research. His recent book, Mugged By Reality: The Liberation of Iraq and the Failure of Good Intentions, is a memoir of his time in Iraq.
I wish I had space to do this long interview justice. I hope you will read it for yourself.
In the course of the interview, Agresto contrasts the mindset of the West versus Islam. Consider his observation on the American truism, "the end doesn't justify the means":
JA: We have certain categories here in the West, and I think they’re Judao-Christian categories, and I think they’re philosophic categories from the enlightenment, however you want to find the roots of it, where we say…I think of how casually, Hugh, we say you know, the ends don’t justify the means.
HH: Right.
JA: I’m not sure if everybody in the world believes that. In fact, I know there are millions of people in the world who would say that’s silly. If the means are good, if the ends are good, any means are good. Any means are useful for a good end. And so if killing of children is useful for the success of the Islamic revolution, then it’s willed. We should do it.
Or consider his take on Ayatolla Sistani, whom Agresto describes as an Islamist, even though the American foreign policy establishment wants to see him (against the disappointing evidence right before their eyes) as a moderate:
We Americans live on hope all the time. We are the most Pollyannish people in the whole world. We are so quick to forgive, we forget immediately, and the rest of the world’s not like that, Hugh. (more)